Love the site (Especially the
"Rants")I'm surprised not to see any
mention of the intonation problems associated with USA made
Gibson guitars.
On most Gibson electrics the
scale length from the nut to 12th fret is 24.562"
No problem with that...but the
scale length above the 12th fret is 24.75.
That means OK intonation from the
nut to 12th fret (especially with
Buzz
Feiten Tuning System or similar), but really BAD intonation
above the 12th fret. At the 22nd fret, the error is
about 0.04".
About half the width of the
fret)
Copies (including Epiphone) don't
have this fault.
What do you think?
Hello Phil...
I'm not much of a Gibson
Fan myself, In fact I could go on about that for a long rant
!!!!
The reason I haven't said
anything about this in my rants is. Basically I didn't know
about it.
After I read your letter, I
do concur with your findings !!!!
I don't like the short
stubby necks, I don't like the fret size, I don't like rosewood
fretboards with plastic inlays (on supposedly American Guitars)
I never even got in as deep
as the tuning problem !!!
Although I never met an SG that would hold tune without a lot of
neck & fret work.....
Ed
Based in Bolton, near Manchester, in the Northwest of
England, owner Phil Hartley is a well respected guitar repairer
and technician with many years of experience. During this time
the services of Phil Hartley Guitar Repairs have been used by
music shops throughout England.
As a former head of large retail guitar department and
through his many years as a guitar teacher, Phil Hartley has
gained first hand knowledge of the problems encountered by
guitarists of all abilities and budgets.
Whether your beginners’ guitar has developed a tuning
problem or you’ve worn away the frets on your guitar, you can
rest assured that each will receive the same level of care and
attention to make your guitar the best it can be.
All repairs are carried out by Phil Hartley. Work is never
subcontracted out nor is it ever assigned to a trainee or
apprentice.
Phil Hartley is an approved retrofitter of the Buzz Feiten
Tuning System. See the new
Buzz Feiten page for details of this revolutionary
intonation system.
Ryan to me
show details Aug 31 (1 day ago) Reply
Hey Ed
I was recently on a Les Paul forum and I noticed
this hateful assed post about "why does Ed Roman hate Les
Pauls?"...I hate Les Pauls too.. matter of fact...my review
of a Les Paul could be summed up in two words: "shit
sandwich"...anyway...they go on and on about how terrible of
a human being you are but not one.. I repeat NOT ONE could
respond, or even bring up, the facts you state about Les
Paul necks, headstock angle, cheap wood, foreign
construction that claims to be from the U.S. You've
deprogrammed me...and seeing these people bitch and bitch
about you and they like Les Pauls "just because" & "they
rock" and "Ace Frehley plays them" isn't good enough in my
book... I come from Missouri.. the show me state..&
I've been shown your guitars.. I've been in your shop...and
I've also seen Les Paul's.. played them..
Hell my father has an original 52 without a serial number he
bought at a pawn shop in 1964 that's been sitting in a case
and sees the light of day once every 5 years when he gets it
out.. Its a 50 something year old piece of shit...oh
it gets a tone, sure...but hey if I eat at a Mexican
restaurant my asshole will produce a tone too.. big deal !!
peace on the hill brother!!!
Ryan
Missouri.
Thanks for your kind letter and your
support, I appreciate it. People are
people!!!
Forgive them father for they know not what they are talking
about. Ha Ha
What were you doing on that stupid forum anyway ???
I can convert that 52 to a 58 or 59, I can make it
playable anyway !!!!!
Some vintage geek will buy it on Ebay, because he thinks the
mojo will rub off on him.
I've done it before !!!! And I'll do it again,
that should piss off those retards on the forum.
Thanks Again
Ed
Hi Ed Roman
I'm glad to see someone else is standing in the wind against
Gibson, I have many times wanted to build a web-site called
"gibsonsucks.com" I have many more stories that I have amassed in
my last 20 years as a guitar repair person in Toronto. I do
repairs for several dealers besides my own clientele. I have been
forced to deal with the less than intelligent cretin's at Gibson
for parts & warranty issues. They are even worse than Rickenbacker
when it comes to helping a customer solve a problem. They have
repeatedly lost and/or screwed up guitars, They have treated me
like a complete fool when I deal with them. They have lied to me
more than 100 times. F#@K Gibson !!!!!!
Lowell K. Roberson
Precision Guitar Repair
Toronto CA,
I appreciate your correspondence, I have
considered doing a website that targeted Gibson's screw-ups
myself. I just never seem to get around to it. To date I
have a total of 22 different websites.
Ed Roman 10/13/08
Todd Kennedy to me
show details 2:34 PM (1 hour ago) Reply
Hey Ed
I tend to agree with everything you have to say about Gibsons.
However there is one model I have really fallen in love with. I
wasn't quite sure why I felt this model was so superior to my
other Les Pauls. ( I have several ) but after reading your article
and Gibson comparisons, I figured out why.
This guitar has a three piece maple neck (unfinished) as you
stated is the preferred wood for necks by most luthiers. It also
has an Ebony fretboard also something you feel every electric
should have. The guitar also came stock with Grover tuners instead
of the old Kluson's.
The guitar is fully bound front, back, neck, and headstock and
comes stock with EMG pickups and is made in Gibsons Custom shop.
I picked it up on E-bay for $2500.00 and it has become my favorite
guitar to date. I am 47 years old and been playing since the 70,s
so I've owned a ton of guitars. Currently have 14 in my collection
(two of which are 80,s Hamer's ) The greatest and most underrated
guitars on the used market, a sentiment you seem to share with me.
Anyhow the Gibson I am speaking of is a Gibson Zakk Wylde model.
It truly is a great guitar. I will never again buy an off the
shelf "Jipson" (pun intended) as they are complete crap for the
money they charge. However the custom shop re-issues have
impressed me and are leaps and bounds better than the off the
shelf crap. Most of them are made with quality woods and long neck
Tenons and resonate like a good paul should. However their prices
are indeed ridiculous .Luckily the used market has recognized this
and you can now get a good custom shop 1956, 57, 58, 60 re-issue
for around $2000.00. I have a 59, & a 58 and along with my Zakk
Wylde model have fallen back in love with the Les Paul.
Zakk Wylde apparently did his homework when he designed his
signature model as it does seem to meet all of your benchmarks for
a quality guitar. Anyhow just some food for thought.
I have recently retired to Las Vegas from LA. bought a small
mansion (foreclosure) and am looking forward to meeting you and
spending some of my hard earned baby boomer cash at your store.
I now have the money to spend but still prefer to spend it wisely
and get value for my money. What are your thoughts on the above
named guitar? can you concede that
Gibson may have actually made a good (although overpriced ) guitar
? or are you locked into the belief that all Gibsons are crap ?
Cheers
Keep the great Rants coming
Todd Kennedy
I Will Most Definitely Never Concede !!!
I am still firmly locked
into the belief that there are more than 30 brands of guitars that
are better than Gibson Les Pauls, SG's, etc etc.
Important......
It's not just the quality that I don't like,
You started your letter by agreeing with me on everything I say. I
don't think you actually would agree with everything I say about
Gibson's In fact I doubt that you have read too many of my
articles. I believe you are a really a Gibson lover that is
looking for a way around the multitude of problems.
The 22 fret, stubby neck, big heel, improper
pickup placement & set neck are only 5 things that cannot be
addressed through quality of construction. Those are all design
faults that should cause a complete redesign of the basic
structure of the guitar.
Not to
mention the angle splayed headstock, the 17 Degree tilt, no volute
are not fixable simply by putting a good set of tuners on the
guitar.
The spring mounted pickups
is a forgivable error only because almost everybody does it. But
that still does not make it right. No amount of good quality
construction can fix all these basic design flaws.
True the Zakk Guitar does have a 3 piece maple neck which is a
step in the right direction structurally, But a maple neck on a
Les Paul is counterproductive to the one good sound it does get.
Also the ebony neck is too bright for the Les Paul signature
sound. Most Les Paul lovers want rosewood fingerboards and
mahogany necks.
Zakk Wylde is awesome, I have known him for more than 25 years, I
wonder how much better he would sound on a Turner model one or on
a JET or a Quicksilver.
I have been
very merciful towards Gibson on what I have written above,
If I spent more than five minutes on this I could have listed at
least 6 or 7 more unforgivable design flaws.
I didn't even mention the backbreaking
weight, I didn't elaborate on the glue in neck that tends to
deaden the resonance from the fingerboard. I could go on and on.
Zakk Wylde is a great guitarist, he's also very hardheaded when it
comes to Gibson, reminds me of the way I used to be when I
was riding Harley's for 34 years of my life. (Don't try to
confuse me with the facts, I've already made up my mind.)
Gibson will never change their design.
If they did, they would be admitting to the world that they were
wrong all these years. Believe me
that will never happen. It's simply an ego thing !!!!!
They could easily redesign the guitar, when
I worked there back in 1991 this was being discussed on a daily
basis. No one could figure out how to fix the problems and still
save face.
Image is everything to
Gibson, building the best guitar comes somewhere else down the
road !!!!!
Ed Roman
Another
Unbelievable Story About Gibson
Personally
I Believe it
Ed Roman
Ed,
You might enjoy reading this one:
My Story has been followed by a few "long timers" on the Gibson
Dark Fire Forum.
My Bio is here:
http://www.futureguitarnow.com/forum/index.php?topic=33.0
I've been playing guitar over 40 years - my prior "new" Gibson
was a '73 Les Paul Standard purchased new in 1974 for $525.
Prior to Dark Fire, the most I ever spent for a guitar was $2500
for my Gretsch G6120 Brian Setzer. I own 30+ Stringed
Instruments, as I still perform occasional studio session work,
and play in a couple local bands here on the Central Cal coast.
I do NOT consider myself a collector - I'm just a guitarist with
a broader palette of colors to work with. In my teens, I taught
myself Electronics, through my passion for guitar. Eventually I
went to college, got my BSEE, and I'm currently employed as an
electronics Design Engineer, designing digital audio equipment
for the Cinema industry.
My father passed away in October, 2008 - and a small inheritance
left me with a "spare" $3500 last December 2008. I joined the
Gibson Forum on Dec 8 , 2008, to learn more about this new
guitar called "Dark Fire".
I had been following the Gibson Robot Guitar since seeing
Tronical press releases in Summer 2006.
Interjection ....
I feel sorry for anyone who bought the
Robot (It looks Like a poor
man's Trans-performance been on the market almost 12 years)
Ed
I continue to feel $3500 is quite a lot of money - but the Dark
Fire "Package" delivers a unique feature set not offered by
other guitars. As a slide player, I was annoyed with the Alt
Tuning functions provided by my Variax and my VG-99. The Dark
Fire solves all those problems - providing superior tone and
sustain for slide playing, and $3500 is typical price for a new
Gibson these days. Ha
Ha
I purchased mine Dec. 15 mail order, sight unseen. I took
delivery on Dec. 18, 2008 - but had to obtain an RMA, due to
paint damage from a loose Volume knob, that was rolling around
inside the case. Prior to sending it back to Gibson, I measured
the audio performance of the Dark Fire in all modes with an
Audio Precision measurement system, and created a "Bug List"
which along with my Test Report, and pictures of paint damage -
I sent to Gibson Customer Service along with my Guitar.
I posted my Bug List at the old forum on Dec 21, 2008.
I later learned this detailed "Bug List" document got the
attention of Gibson management, as they stopped Dark Fire
production while they investigated each of the "bugs" on my
List.
I later learned that despite the media blitz, Gibson only
shipped six Dark Fires on Friday Dec 13 - and mine was among
those very first guitars built and shipped in time to be sold by
a Dark Fire Dealer after 5:00pm Monday December 15, 2008.
Prior to Christmas 2008, the "Quick Start guide" was the Only
documentation available. The RIP was not available until
February, 2009. There were no Craig Anderton Guides posted
online yet. Later I was involved with proofreading each of these
guides. There are a few other forum members who I contacted
offline and they each directly assisted in this "proof reading"
/ offer any corrections - particularly for the latest Dark Fire
Rev 4.0 manual.
Working with the Guitar that first weekend in December 2008, I
determined very few things were actually working as advertised.
I had a Sticky MCK, Snap Crackle Pop sounds at every turn, Mag
PU's were out of Phase, Piezo was out of phase, the Neck P90H
made a terrible hum, the Piezo would squeal with feedback (
still does) if you run it at stage volume. and it sounded like a
shower of "hissss" with its poor piezo preamp. The Top had nice
flame maple, that was not damaged - that was really the ONLY
reason I decided to keep my Dark Fire guitar, and not send it
back to the Dealer for a total refund. I was very close to just
writing this whole thing off - but I decided I would trust
Gibson to make things right. After all the principal function of
this Guitar in my arsenal would be to honor my fathers memory. I
took pics to document the paint damage on the sides and back ,
including a few of the internal circuitry - just to compare if
anything would be replaced / changed during the RMA repair. I
sent my Dark Fire with original packaging to Nashville on Dec 23
under an RMA with instructions to fix all items on my Bug list.
I became a regular contributor on the Gibson Dark Fire Forum. On
Dec 24, several other early owners were posting on the Gibson
Forum that after fiddling with the MCK, they were now "stuck in
DADGAD" and could not get the Guitar to return to standard
tuning. They were told by Gibson Customer Service to obtain an
RMA!
I thought this was absurd, and that perhaps if Gibson had only
provided a "Dark Fire Owners Manual" as a downloadable PDF -
with the correct information on how to perform a factory reset -
then perhaps many early customers could simply solve the "stuck
in DADGAD" tuning problem themselves - without the need to send
their new guitar to Nashville just to get it retuned to standard
pitch correctly.
My Guitar was in transit to Nashville, but on Christmas day - I
googled and located the Linkedin and Facebook accounts for
Gibson Management.
Still believing the hype - and that all 2000 Dark Fire guitars
were already shipped out of Nashville for various final
destinations around the globe and soon to be in the hands of
equally confused New Owners, on Dec 25, 2008 I sent Gibson a
Letter expressing that the Dark Fire Owners were considering a
Class Action suit - to force Gibson to supply a Dark Fire Owners
Manual for download. I gave them 10 days to post a Dark Fire
Owners Manual. I placed a copy of this open letter on the Gibson
Forum.
Gibson responded , within 24 hours, the "1st draft" official
Dark Fire Owners Manual was posted for Download at the Gibson
site.
But it soon became obvious why this document was not initially
available, as this was still very much a rough draft "work in
progress" - it still contained numerous "comments" regarding
"How does the user Edit Chameleon Tones?" and in the back it
mentioned the existence of "the Dark Fire Configuration Tool" -
which i later learned is a GUI WinXP Editor for the PEQ and Mag
Coil selection. ( This is scheduled for completion Summer 2009)
At least we now had access to the Factory Reset procedure (
Function #109) - and many Dark Fire Owners avoided the RMA
process, thanks to finally having a Owners Manual.
While my Guitar was away being repaired, I researched "Analog
multiplexing", and posted my "theories of Dark Fire operation"
on the Gibson Forum after stumbling on a complete Analog
Multiplexing Design in the data sheet for the CD4066 Analog
Switch employed in the Dark Fire's Bridge assembly.
My "hunches" were correct, and Tronical became impressed with my
electronic knowledge.
In January, I informed Gibson they should host a Dark Fire Users
Meeting during Winter NAMM, and 48 hours later they announced
this would happen.
On Jan 21, 2009 - Just hours before heading down the freeway to
Anaheim to attend the NAMM show - I took delivery of my repaired
Dark Fire. Gibson repaired the scratched paint, corrected the
Phase issues with the Pickups, replaced the MCK, and the guitar
had less "static" "snap , crackle, pop" sounds. The Piezo still
would feedback, and the piezo Preamp still had a lot of hiss -
but overall I was happy.
I attended the NAMM Dark Fire User Meeting, got my Dark Fire
signed by each member of the Dark Fire team, and talked to Chris
Adams and Craig Anderton for 30 minutes, leaving a good
impression with all of my technical skills and understanding of
the underlying technology. I was happiest to meet Craig
Anderton, who contributed greatly to my early electronics
education, as I had been reading all his musical electronics
articles in Popular Electronics magazine since 1972.
In Early February, 2009 I was invited to become a Moderator of
the Gibson Dark Fire Forum. With the limited tools available
there - I tried to implement "order" out of chaos - creating sub
forums in the Dark Fire Forum area for "Software", "Settings",
"Reference Library", "Polls".
I even enabled File attachments - but this created huge problems
for the Gibson Forum Server, so I had to disable those.
But in May, 2009 - i discovered any post older than 6 months old
began disappearing. I wrote to Henry Juszkiewicz, but it took a
month for Gibson to straighten things out.
So we started a new forum - www.FutureGuitarNow.com, where bulk
of Gibson Dark Fire discussions occur today.
In March 2009, Tronical contacted me to become a USA Engineering
Consultant.
Between March and May - here in my lab in California, I
performed work on implementing last minute circuit modifications
to each component on the Dark Fire, including the RIP Interface.
I tested and documented the correct wiring for the Mag pickups.
I designed and built a Mag pickup polarity tester used by Gibson
to test pickups used in final production.
I purchased my own airline ticket and flew to Nashville 1st week
of May, 2009 - to assist Gibson and Tronical with the restart of
Dark Fire production in May 2009.
However, by June 1 - I still had not been paid, I contacted
Gibson and Tronical to determine if something was wrong with my
work. I was told I should be paid anytime now - be patient.
On June 6, 2009 - I was contacted by Gibson - to see if I would
consider becoming Director of Engineering for Gibson USA, in
Nashville.
I was keen to learn more, but I entered this scene not seeking a
job, I was simply a User - wanting the Dark Fire to succeed -
because I'm a believer in the technology, and convinced that IF
it ever gets implemented correctly - it will succeed and become
dominant in the marketplace. Notice there are a few "if"s in the
prior paragraph.
But I'm already employed, one of 3 busy design engineers for USL
inc. www.uslinc.com ,where I've worked for the past 8 years and
currently part of a team involved in the creation of several new
ground breaking cinema engineering projects, supporting 45
employees, here on the central California coast, situated at the
base of Big Sur Redwoods, kayaking in Morro Bay, clean smog free
air, and in the top ten places to live - according to a recent
MSN poll.
I was at Gibson in Nashville June 10-June 14. Interviewed with 6
upper management people. However, my role as Director of
Engineering meant I would have only one person to report to -
the CEO, and no other Engineers on the staff payroll to
"direct".
I found it awkward that during the four days I was there in
Nashville interviewing for the job, no one at Gibson could
respond to a few of my basic inquiries - like Gibson employee
benefits, Pay scale, Reimbursed Moving expenses. I did learn
that times were rough and there would be no budget for new
engineering tools - which meant I would have to fund and
maintain my own personal tools out of my own paycheck.
I was told my ability to support Gibson USA in all aspects on
the production floor, to implement new technology, to deliver a
consistently higher quality product - was not needed. I learned
from the USA Plant Controller there was no budget for tools for
this activity. In fact the whole Gibson USA plant on Massman
Avenue, Nashville, Tennessee was closed that entire week -
because of poor sales, and the need to manage cash flow with 700
employees.
I did learn that if I took the job, my job performance would be
judged on my ability to be "entrepreneurial". It would be based
on my successful completion of creating several limited edition
guitars each year which generated the desired profitability for
Gibson. I must work alone, formulate my own marketing plan, cost
analysis, and get my suppliers to extend net 90 days payment
terms for any custom items. (circuit boards, wire harness, etc)
and the CEO has 100% control over all aspects of the final
design and product specification - including inserting
unobtainable last minute product specification changes.
It sounded eerily familiar.
All the above, and the fact that Henry only talked to me for
barely 3 minutes the entire trip - left me perplexed. My prior
experience as Electronic Product Engineer at Ernie Ball/ Music
Man 1998-2001, provided first hand knowledge regarding the
difficulty of converting a wood shop culture into a high tech
electronics culture. Add the typical moody CEO in charge of the
whole shebang - and I estimated that if I took this job, I would
barely last 18 months max under these conditions- and I would
have to compromise and get used to the complete lack of things I
now take for granted - like having $150k worth of electronic
engineering lab tools at my disposal, $2k per year CAD Design
software Licenses, Full health + dental plan, 2 week vacations,
Christmas bonuses, and attending NAMM shows (I was told Gibson
engineers are not allowed to attend) Plus I would be forced to
surrender to Gibson all my musical invention ideas, and be
prevented from all side businesses of marketing my own custom
musical electronics product line. Oh yea, I would be the only
degreed Electronic Engineer on the payroll.
The more I looked at Gibson, the more it appeared they were more
interested in finding out how cheap they could get me to move to
Nashville to work for them, and
silencing me on the forums, and
placing huge restrictions on my future electronic career growth.
Then I stumbled on the former Gibson employee reviews at
www.Glassdoor.com -
http://www.glassdoor.com/Reviews/Gibson-Guitar-Reviews-E6869.htm
and after reading those , I saw they each matched my own
personal Gibson experiences.
Call me old fashioned, but I decided that if Gibson wanted me as
Director of Engineering, they should settle old business first.
Tronical's sole cash flow is 100% from Gibson. I felt my efforts
working behind the scenes on the Dark Fire between March and May
benefited Gibson's bottom line, enabled them to ship several
hundred Dark Fires. This work deserves to be paid in full.
Details are here:
http://www.futureguitarnow.com/forum/index.php?action=downloads;sa=view;down=29
I have made this request to Tronical, and they are still putting
me off.
I made a request to Gibson USA , to pay my March to May invoices
( totaling approx $4.3k) and they flat refused to pay me.
I told Gibson we have a conflict in our business style, and I
would not accept their Director of Engineering position.
I also told Henry that if the duties of my "Director of
Engineering" job at Gibson USA meant I was required to be my own
marketing department, R&D lab, and collection agency, for
creating yet another $3,500 Holy V "Guitar of the Month" and be
profitable in this global economic recession - I would be better
off selling Amway soap door to door.
I believe that comment offended Henry, with the net result of 3
days later - Gibson removed me as Gibson Forum moderator, and
they banned my IP from accessing their web site.
Today, I remain unpaid for my Dark Fire R&D work.
I continue to participate at the FGN Dark Fire Forum because -
like you, I'm a Dark Fire Owner, trying to get the most out of
this investment.
Ed - IF you ever need help with a Gibson Dark Fire or Robot -
give me a call.
Steve Conrad
Ed Roman Comments
The Product Is The Final Measurement, When
I worked at Gibson in 1990 & 1991. Believe it or not I was
treated quite well!!! I left the company when my contract ran
out because they could not afford me to pay me what I wanted.
I was on a Hiatus from the retail business. I went back to
the retail business because it was suffering from me being an
absentee owner.
The product in the early 90's was the
best I have seen from the current management, in 1997 it
started a long slow spiral downward. I think that people
who buy Gibson Guitars are foolish and have more money than
brains. This attitude makes me a rather unpopular person
on the Internet.
But I am not here to be in a popularity contest. I stand by my
convictions that Gibson is an overpriced guitar if they sold
them for about half, I might not be so down on them.
I am not proud to have worked at
Gibson, I have seen
Read What Gibson Employees are
saying about Gibson
If You Are A Gibson Employee Go to this website & Tell The World
What The World Needs To Know
Especially if you worked in the repair department or had to deal
with warranty issues
http://www.glassdoor.com/Reviews/Gibson-Guitar-Reviews-E6869.htm