Hi Ed -
After reading your wonderful site I have to say thanks for
answering (sort of) a question no one would/could answer.
I have a 1990 PRS custom - custom ordered it from them,
wanted nickel hardware, got gold . . . but I did order a
Tune-o-matic as I hate trems.
Have contacted PRS quite a few times over the years and
whilst they've been nice to deal with, there was no answer
to my 'how rare are these' question.
Well you say they're desirable, so that will do for me! It's
a bog-standard Custom, 10 top, whale blue and birds.
Actually a pretty nice instrument, and has weathered quite
well, oh and he signed the control cover too.
I must also congratulate you on your rants -
I find myself agreeing with what I'm reading, and thinking
to myself this guy should be in government' ;0)
The overpriced thing hit
the mark - I am now sort of hunting around for a nice
mid-level instrument for my AC/DC loving son - he wants an
SG, I say NO! how about a Tokai . .
Over here (Britain) old honest instruments are now
considered Vintage . . .even the worst that Fender and
Gibson did back in the early 70's are vastly overpriced;
someone is on ebay selling a Vox Clubman bass for £450! the
bodies on these are made from plywood and there's no truss
rod!! I know, I've got the 6 string version . . ..
I blame the collectors, but also the sheer lack of sense and
research on behalf of the buying public - you're right, they
buy something old and expect it will make them sound great.
I can sound like me on my son's £100 Peavey tele copy, and
on my 2 Fenders (Lead II [picking along at about £700 in
today's market] and 1985 Esprit Elite {£1500 or not for
sale, again based on what I've seen recently] sure they're
nice instruments, but they're not THAT great . . . ) The
guitar world has gone mad.
Anyway, could talk all day but won't (bet you're glad). It's
great to see someone not afraid to walk around with their
balls on show (well not literally, but you know what I
mean!)
Take care
Phil Rogers
|
Ed
Finally, someone with real knowledge…The Gibson
neck has never ever been a stable component, aside
from the breaking problem.
I’m 62, been living guitars for over 40 of those
years, and I have NEVER come across a Gibson (LP or SG
in particular) that had a neck I could actually trust:
Both new or vintage, 5 piece of not, in makes NO
difference, the design / shape / dimensions materials
/ geometry / engineering are just ALL wrong. So wrong
that tuning stability was absent, and simply moving
the guitar while playing it is enough to
flatten/sharpen the whole guitar…frightening… Like a
bolt on with some bolts missing..
It was as if the weight of the headstock was enough of
a mass to actually bend the neck, under even moderate
movement. I realized the guitar had to be kept
perfectly STILL to avoid de-tuning problems while on
stage.
I really thought it was just me. Why is everyone nuts
about a Les Paul?? I could never find one (and I
looked for many years) that didn’t have this neck
weakness problem (not to mention the “bump” where the
neck joins the body, another really common and really
bad thing).. Fact is they are fraught with problems,
any one of which make the guitar unreliable at best,
or totally unplayable.
It was many years ago that I stopped looking for a
“stable Gibson” and gave up the chase, I’ll never own
another one, and I can’t help but feel that, Anyone
that does own them either don’t play them, or can’t
hear the pitch shifting, or stands perfectly still
while playing them.
Even while fretting the damn thing, one needs to be
careful not to push forward or pull back in the
slightest, especially at the first position, unless
you want an inappropriate vibrato effect, a ½ tone
shift was easily accomplished without even trying.
I’ve seen Les Paul in person I shook his hand & spoke
with him, his hand is the most delicate thing I ever
held, evidently he designed the most delicate
instrument to match his playing style, and no on
warned the general public of the eminent danger of
musical instability and total catastrophic failure of
the neck itself…..
Then there's always the idiot “musicians” who pride
themselves on how many guitars they’ve broken in their
“careers”…
I know you’re busy, I just came across your Gibson
neck weakness article, and wanted to add my own 40+
years of similar disappointment bordering on distain
for the entire Gibson fallacy. Everything you’ve said,
I have experienced.
So at 60 years old, the “bolt on – set neck” battle
rages full tilt in my head, Maybe I’ll try a set neck
JET??
The Ozone Ranger
Response from Ed Roman
I usually don't print letters from people who don't
sign their names, But I am in total agreement on this
and it was well written and articulate. The
public does need to know this.
I have become tremendously unpopular among many Les
Paul lovers, they bash me on the internet constantly
because I am taking the unpopular stance.
I'm not running for public office so I don't
care!!!! No one ever has challenged the physics
or truthfulness of my articles. They just call me
names. (Sticks and Stones may break my bones but names
will never hurt me.
THE PUBLIC NEEDS TO KNOW
!!!!!!!!) |
See The Nicest Affordable
Gibson Les Pauls Anywhere
Ryan to me
show details Aug 31 (1 day ago) Reply
Hey Ed< I was recently on a Les Paul
forum and I noticed this
hateful assed post about "why
does Ed Roman hate Les Pauls?"...I hate Les Pauls
too.. matter of fact...my review of a Les Paul could
be summed up in two words: "shit
sandwich"...anyway...they go on and on about how
terrible of a human being you are but not one.. I
repeat NOT ONE could respond, or even bring up, the
facts you state about Les Paul necks, headstock angle,
cheap wood, foreign construction that claims to be
from the U.S. You've deprogrammed me...and
seeing these people bitch and bitch about you and they
like Les Pauls "just because" and "they rock" and "Ace
Frehley plays them" isn't good enough in my book...
I come from Missouri.. the show me state..& I've
been shown your guitars.. I've been in your shop...and
I've also seen Les Paul's.. played them..
Hell my father has an original 52 without a serial
number he bought at a pawn shop in 1964 that's been
sitting in a case and sees the light of day once every
5 years when he gets it out.. Its a 50 something
year old piece of shit...oh it gets a tone, sure...but
hey if I eat at a Mexican restaurant my asshole will
produce a tone too.. big deal !!
peace on the hill brother!!!
Ryan
Missouri.
Thanks for your kind letter and
your support, I appreciate it.
People are people!!!
Forgive them father for they know not what they are
talking about. Ha Ha
What were you doing on that stupid forum anyway ???
I can convert that 52 to a 58 or 59, I can make
it playable anyway !!!!!
Some vintage geek will buy it on Ebay, because he
thinks the mojo will rub off on him.
I've done it before !!!! And I'll do it again,
that should piss off those retards on the forum.
Thanks Again
Ed |
LETTER FROM A
DIEHARD GIBSON MAN
Hi Ed, I hope you get this.
I just read your opinion on gibson guitars. I agree
and disagree with you and the responses. I personally
own seven gibsons and love them all, but I can see
your point. I have owned good and bad, its a crap
shoot.
Quality control is out the window, but there are
some good ones, here is what I own: '57 Les Paul jr,
63 Melody Maker, 67 SG jr, 73 Les Paul Custom, 77 RD
Artist, 2001 Pete Townsend SG, 2004 '56 Reissue Les
Paul......The worst is the reissue, I agree with all
of your comments.
But on the other hand, the best is the RD because
it is all maple, including the neck...and it has a
volute which "lessens" the chance of breakage. I once
owned a 73 SG custom, worst guitar ever. It had a
horrible skinny neck, and like another gentleman
mentioned, wouldn't hold tune even if you swayed back
and forth.
Absolutely horrible, so I got rid of it. My 67 SG jr
is my main guitar, it has a good thick neck that
doesn't wander. I will make a long story short because
I have a hard time typing. Yes there are some shitty
gibsons, but there are also some good ones, you just
have to look hard.
For my one good 67, I bet there are 20 that are
unplayable by now...."wall art". I respect your
opinion, and understand what you are saying, because
it is the truth. But I am still die hard gibson, its
like a treasure hunt....buy and sell, buy and sell
till you find the right one.
Cheers,
My bands website is www.thefrank.ca and we are headed
down to California in May, so maybe we will stop by
and see you.
Thanks for the great eye opener,
Denver Swainson
This Guy seems to agree with
me but still loves Gibson !!!!
How hard do you have to hit
someone for them to figure out who is hitting them
!!!!!
Ed |
Letter From A Consumer
Ed, I have spent an hour or so reading thru
your web site dialogue with respect to American vs non-American
made guitars..............first thanks for your honesty....there
are probably a few folks that are not your best friend for your
comments, but so what....
I'm 57, and have had many LP's Strats and the like over the last
40 years......but I am just a fan/aficionado of the instrument
now, as my playing is for my own amusement and psychological
well-being.....
I own about 15 electrics, and except for a PRS I acquired VERY
cheaply, all my guitars were made in Japan, Korea, and Indonesia
and China.....I am a Tokai freak, and I have one Tokai Strat
from 77 or so that is a keeper....
but I have 3 LP's, a 335, a V and and Explorer....all
Tokai's.....average cost to me about $400 or so.....I have
modified some pickup combinations, but the main comment from
anyone and everyone that has seen these guitars (including
dealers) is just what great guitars they are...
And why not? what is the culture that disdains a well made
guitar from a foreign land? since I can't pay $20 grand for a 65
Strat.....am I crazy? I used to buy the same guitars by the
handfuls for $150 each....in today's market I guess I would be a
rich man...oh well, too bad, so sad...
Thanks for your comments.....what a nice breath of air......
Rick Johnson
Ed Roman's Response
Rick
I have played many copy Gibsons that are every bit the same or
better quality than what Gibson peddles.
My issues with Gibson
are the fact that the designs are primarily incorrect. The
pickups are misplaced the headstock is too big.
The headstock
angle is wrong, The necks break like tissue paper,
The weight is
incorrectly distributed, The Guitars are muddy sounding, They
weigh far too much, The necks are too short, The neck joint
prevents sound from transmitting to the pickups, The pickups are
floating, The inlays are plastic, I could go on but what's the
point.
The guitars you own could easily be better than
Gibson but they still have the same design flaws because they
are copies.
(Although I've never seen a broken copy)
Ed Roman |
Dear Ed
Thank you VERY much for ripping on Gibson.
As a former employee of Gibson I know first
hand at the lack of quality & craftsmanship.
There are so many corners cut at that
factory it's disgusting, particularly for a
product that costs on the average about as
much as a decent used car. We need to spread
the word about this shady company. And
you're right, most people are misinformed
about Gibson and just want the "vanity" of
having one. Thanks once again and let's get
more rants about Gibson.
Benjamin UnwinP.S. they treat
their employees like shit too.
Response From
Ed
I worked for Gibson as a
consultant, artist relations & sales
training in 1990 & 1991. They treated me
extremely well when I worked there, I could
never ever complain about what they paid me,
In fact they gave me six $2,000.00 guitars &
6 weeks extra pay when they were done with
me. We parted ways extremely well !!!
Which I have been told
many times is very rare)
In fact I went on to sell
many hundreds of thousands of dollars worth
of Gibson's at East Coast Music Mall. I
thought the future looked pretty bright for
me and Gibson doing lots of business.
They even paid me $2,000.00
to clean out the entire Steinberger factory
3 or 4 months after I had left their
employ. The factory had all the original
molds, tooling, jigs and potentially over
$300.000.00 worth of Steinberger parts and
accessories that they did not want !!!
(I guess that makes me the worlds biggest
dumpster diver because I loaded up an 8 car
garage with all that gear)
Today I am the only person
in the world that supplies the old parts to
the Steinberger market.
Gibson likes to sue their ex
employees, Gibson doesn't like it, when an
employee leaves then uses some of the
contacts they made while in their employ to
further his own business enterprise.
Their strategy is very good, Apparently they
frivolously and maliciously sue the ex
employee and force him to expend huge sums
of money to defend his case in court. Many
of these guys cannot afford to spend
$35,000.00 to $1,000.000.00 on a lawyer who
will 9 times out of 10 drag the case on and
on to drive up his fees.
Gibson doesn't care who wins
the case, Their plan is to bleed the person
they are suing so much that they will give
up and settle. Gibson has the last laugh
when the poor guy is curled up in a little
ball with blood streaming from his backside.
That's why I advise ex Gibson employees to
get an insurance policy to cover this
situation, That's what I did, and I saved
myself more than most people make in a
lifetime !!!!
Incidentally, many people
who get sued already have this type of
insurance in their standard comprehensive
business policy. The problem is they just
don't realize they are covered so they don't
even bother to check it out. Too Bad !!!!
(Sometimes you
actually have to get your attorney to push
the issue with your insurance company
because insurance companies are not known
for their forthrightness.)
The only minor complaint I
ever had when I was at Gibson, was that I
had too small an expense account, It was
near impossible to function because I could
never get a check to pay even the smallest
bill to further my research or make a
contact, set up a demo etc etc.
I actually spent several
thousand dollars of my own money to pay
photographers for publicity shots &
transport costs that by rights should have
been paid by Gibson. I didn't really mind
that one bit though, They paid me very well
!!! I was able to write most of it off and
as I said they paid me extremely well.
I met a lot of very high
powered people in the music business in my
capacity as Domestic Sales Manager & Artist
Relations. Plus I learned a lot from Henry
Juszkiewicz, I had occasion to work with him
one on one several times. I personally
would never have called him a jerk or a
moron or even a psychotic loony megalomaniac
with an ego the size of Texas.
I had been warned about him,
but I never saw any thing that I thought was
psychotic or megalomaniacal in my
relationship with him. He was a bit of a
"puddin head" but I actually liked his
energy and tremendous drive to be the best.
Many of my celebrity
customers are today my customers because of
my initial dealings I had with them when I
worked for them. I owe much of my success to
Gibson for exposing me to the high end of
the market. I don't think they like that
very much. Oh Well !!!!
When I started
independently reviewing guitars in 1992 I
had my first ugly encounter with them!! I
always call them as I see them, I published
a comparison shootout between PRS & Gibson.
PRS won hands down and my review was
strictly on the up and up. I just printed
information directly from their brochures,
This way there can be no accidents or
repercussions.
I became the worlds largest
PRS dealer a title I held for at least 3
years, I was selling 32 guitars a month from
one location in a town of 52.000 population.
Mostly mailorder, The entire Sam Ash Chain,
I think they had 9 stores back then was only
selling 15 a month for the entire chain,
NYC, Long Island New Jersey etc etc
I attribute my initial
success with PRS to my straight to point no
nonsense, no bullshit review of the PRS VS
Gibson,
People would call and want
to speak to the Guru.... It was easy to
sell them, because I believed in them and
the margins were also pretty decent.
Remember this is before the internet so
mailorder was a completely different animal. |
Gibson guitars after Ed Roman has retopped them
See many more at
this link
See The Nicest
Affordable Gibson Les Pauls Anywhere
Even
One More Unhappy Gibson Guy
Hello Ed..;);)
greetings from Norway..
been looking at your website for a few hours
now and I am impressed, especially the rants
section
as I have some bad experience myself with
gibson guitars.
first I owned a Les Paul studio that had
several glips between the fretboard and
neck, think they tried to paint over it or
something, didn't work..;);)cost me 12000
kr.(1800 dollars) some 16 years ago ..a lot
of money when you are 14..
now the reason for buying my Les Paul was of
course slash of guns n roses, my hero..
(See
Ghostbuilders, Ed)
and your section on brand loyalty is also
very interesting and very true, as I have
been there myself, buying all of Gibsons
B.S. about their "hand crafted"
instruments.. I have found no such thing in
my Gibsons..;);)
my second guitar was an Explorer, brand
new 2007 model, and the same damn thing was
wrong with the
neck on this one as well. Only the glips was
bigger, it looked like they hadn't even
tried to fit the fretboard right.. it stood
out a couple of millimeters from the neck
all the way from 5.fret up to the 12.fret..
poor craftsmanship at best.. I mean even the
cheapest of models from brands like Ibanez
etc. you will not find major flaws like
this..
how the hell can they go on making their
crappy instr..??and people are still
buying..??
I have now gotten rid of both my gibsons and
be sure: there will never be one in my house
again...ever!!!
I am now a proud owner of an Ibanez universe
7 string.. and it works and sounds better
than I could ever imagine..
will not trade that one for any other
guitar, the build is excellent and so far
beyond gibson`s sad attempts..
by the way.. any views up`s or down`s
regarding Ibanez guitars..??just
curious..;);)
oh and I have to mention the Les Paul slash
signature model, here in Norway the list
price is 65.000 kroner.
that should be about $9.500 !!!!!...what
does Gibson do that can justify that kind of
prices..??ghost build like you have
mentioned..?? Slash probably gets his share
I reckon..;);)
Well thats all from me, Use this if you
can/want to on your website, be sure I will
do my bit to convert people into thinking
for and by themselves, not believing all the
commercial stuff they read from major corps.
like gibson..
Hans E. Beddari
Stjørdal.
Norway.
Thanks Hans for your
letter,
Who knows, Maybe it might
convince some other 14 year old not to make
the mistake that you and I both made when we
were young.
Could be, it's useless to
try and fight the corporate machine that is
Gibson !!!!! I get lot's of negativity
slung at me because I choose to call it the
way I see it...
Occasionally when someone
tells me they didn't fall for the corporate
BS, I am elated,
Today in the USA most people
are brainwashed and programmed before they
are out of 3rd grade. I guess we can thank
the American Advertising Council for turning
our country into a 3rd world. Of course all
the wonderful American businessmen who only
care about making money for themselves that
sends all our wonderful designs to China so
they can put all their employees out of
work.
Don't those idiotic morons
realize that no one can afford to buy
anything if they don't have a job... Duh
!!!!
Maybe someday our American
culture will mature enough to realize what
is actually happening to us !!!!
I know that my customers in
Norway are all doing quite well because I
sell a lot of very expensive guitars there.
Thanks again for your letter
!!!
Ed Roman
|
Hi
there--I haven't purchased any of your
guitars (doh!) but I found you site
incredibly informative, and wanted to send
you a heads-up if someone hadn't already.
You bashed Les Pauls (which I think was
deserved--I started playing on a Les Paul
and have owned quite a few) and it reminded
me of a "Some Assembly Required" episode I
saw on cable (the Discovery Channel). They
show the process of making this and that,
and they had an episode in the Gibson
factory where they followed a Les Paul
through the factory.
I've built my own electrics for decades .
. . Not that I'm a super expert, but I know
one end from the other. I was AMAZED
watching this. Yeah, the host was building
one and he did the usual "I don't know what
I'm doing but I'm trying" job. But, the REAL
guys putting them together . . . There was
one shot where a guy was slamming unbent
fret wire into the neck with a VERY big
hammer (I suppose the hammer bent the fret
to the fingerboard?) from one long piece of
wire (I thought you prebent and precut?) and
then nipping it off afterwards. He slammed
them in like he was putting up drywall--fret
down, bam bam, nip, fret down, bam, bam, nip
. . . For something that everyone thinks is
"the top guitar there is" it was truly
horrible.
In the space of the ten minutes or so they
were in the Gibson factory I saw at least
six or eight things I would NEVER do to my
own guitar . . . If you haven't already, you
need to watch it for yourself. Amazing.
Anyway, I love your site, and just thought
you might like to see this.
Don
Thanks Don
Gibson
has been getting with murder for years. They
have a core audience of uninformed close
minded people who simply don't get what is
going on in the world today.
I am noticing it more and more that many
people are starting to smarten up. I am
encouraged by the amount of letters like
yours that I get. I should print them all
but there just isn't room. Someone should
start a website "Gibson Quality Issues .com
or something stronger maybe. I have
hundreds of letters on file that I could
send them. If you know any one interested
in putting up a site I will subsidize them
!!!!
Ed |
Hi
Ed,
Love
the site (Especially the
"Rants")
I'm
surprised not to see any mention of
the intonation problems associated
with USA made Gibson guitars.
On
most Gibson electrics the scale
length from the nut to 12th fret is
24.562"
No
problem with that...but the scale
length above the 12th fret is 24.75.
At
the 22nd fret, the error is about
0.04".
About
half the width of the fret)
Copies (including Epiphone) don't
have this fault.
What do you think?
Hello Phil...
I'm not much of a Gibson Fan
myself, In fact I could go on
about that for a long rant !!!!
The reason I haven't said
anything about this in my rants
is. Basically I didn't know
about it.
After I read your letter, I do
concur with your findings !!!!
I
don't like the short stubby
necks, I don't like the fret
size, I don't like rosewood
fretboards with plastic inlays
(on supposedly American Guitars)
I never even got in as deep as
the tuning problem !!!
Although I never met an SG that
would hold tune without a lot of
neck & fret work.....
Ed
Based in Bolton, near
Manchester, in the Northwest of
England, owner Phil Hartley is a
well respected guitar repairer and
technician with many years of
experience. During this time the
services of Phil Hartley Guitar
Repairs have been used by music
shops throughout England.
As a former head of large
retail guitar department and through
his many years as a guitar teacher,
Phil Hartley has gained first hand
knowledge of the problems
encountered by guitarists of all
abilities and budgets.
Whether your beginners’ guitar
has developed a tuning problem or
you’ve worn away the frets on your
guitar, you can rest assured that
each will receive the same level of
care and attention to make your
guitar the best it can be.
All repairs are carried out by
Phil Hartley. Work is never
subcontracted out nor is it ever
assigned to a trainee or apprentice.
Phil Hartley is an approved
retrofitter of the Buzz Feiten
Tuning System. See the new
Buzz Feiten page for details of
this revolutionary intonation system
|
Ryan to me
show details Aug 31 (1 day ago) Reply
Hey Ed< I was recently on a
Les Paul forum and I noticed this
hateful assed post about "why does Ed
Roman hate Les Pauls?"...I hate Les
Pauls too.. matter of fact...my review
of a Les Paul could be summed up in two
words: "shit sandwich"...anyway...they
go on and on about how terrible of a
human being you are but not one.. I
repeat NOT ONE could respond, or even
bring up, the facts you state about Les
Paul necks, headstock angle, cheap wood,
foreign construction that claims to be
from the U.S. You've deprogrammed
me...and seeing these people bitch and
bitch about you and they like Les Pauls
"just because" and "they rock" and "Ace
Frehley plays them" isn't good enough in
my book... I come from Missouri.. the
show me state..& I've been shown your
guitars.. I've been in your shop...and
I've also seen Les Paul's.. played
them..
Hell my father has an original 52
without a serial number he bought at a
pawn shop in 1964 that's been sitting in
a case and sees the light of day once
every 5 years when he gets it out.. Its
a 50 something year old piece of
shit...oh it gets a tone, sure...but hey
if I eat at a Mexican restaurant my
asshole will produce a tone too.. big
deal !!
Peace On The Hill Brother!!!
Ryan
Missouri.
Thanks for your
kind letter and your support, I
appreciate it. People are people!!!
Forgive them father for they know not
what they are talking about. Ha Ha
What were you doing on that stupid forum
anyway ???
I can convert that 52 to a 58 or 59, I
can make it playable anyway !!!!!
Some vintage geek will buy it on Ebay,
because he thinks the mojo will rub off
on him.
I've done it before !!!! And I'll do it
again, that should piss off those
retards on the forum.
Thanks Again
Ed |
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